Sandy Grey said TATOC “is a pseudo owners association linked to trade body RDO now abbreviated to timeshare association”.
The present and updated TCA webpage carried over the same description.
Since April 2009 that statement has existed and without a known challenge from TATOC
On Friday the 27th of June 2014 TATOC stirred and issued an instruction to its legal team who actioned and wrote to the TCA.
Firstly and before I continue, the two Directors of TATOC did not ring us at the TCA, did not write to us, did not even email us – they never even called to say good luck with the continuance of Consumers Advice, did not offer assistance, nor help on any matters we might have got wrong, no, ‘none of the above’.
That all said TATOC plunged in with a firm of solicitors (rated as tier 1 in the Midlands), made a complaint which we are duty bound to investigate.
“The TATOC complaint”
The story starts as the TCA repeated on the new web site
The Association of Timeshare Owners Committees, is a pseudo owners association linked to trade body RDO now abbreviated to timeshare association.
John Hughes a representative from Shakespear’s (a firm of solicitors) on behalf of TATOC wrote to the TCA
“TATOC is an independent body which was established to protect the interests of timeshare owners and represents member controlled resorts but also has a wider role as a body representing the interests of timeshare members generally. Whilst it does have a regular dialogue with the RDO it is misleading to refer to it as being linked to RDO. Also reference to pseudo is misleading.
Can you please amend the reference to our client on the website so that it reads?
‘The association of timeshare owners committees, an owners association which represents and seeks to protect the interests of resorts controlled by its members and timeshare owners generally’.
We await to hearing from you accordingly.”
So, we all see the issues which TATOC asked the TCA to address.
What is TATOC?
TATOC, to avoid doubt, is an abbreviated trading name of “The Association of Timeshare Owners Committees Ltd.
The present Directors are Mr. Geoffrey Neil Chapman appointed 11/3/2007 and Mr. Harry Taylor appointed 12/3/2011. The Company Secretary is Mr. Henry Taylor and was appointed 23/1/2007.
The Association of Timeshare Owners Committees Ltd is identified by its Company no. 04337250. Its Reg office is Somerset House Temple Street, Birmingham, B2 5DJ and the Company has been incorporated 12 years. Incorporation occurring on 10/12/2001.
Parenthetically the Reg office is not their trading office or their accountants, it is their solicitors (!).
Those in short are the facts with regards to the correct identity of TATOC.
Credit should be given to TATOC’s Solicitors who identified TATOC as a Limited Company and gave us the company number.
“Company” is a fact which TATOC eluded to mention on their website.
To complete the cast of the Company I have listed the past 15 directors who have for their own personal and business reasons resigned from TATOC.
TATOC’S Objection to the word “linked.”
Sandy Grey said “TATOC is linked to RDO”!
Let’s see what was reported and said by TATOC who objects to us using this term.
TATOC Director Geoff Chapman explained to this year’s conference delegates that “we sail in the same ship – the HMS Timeshare”. RDO were delegates in attendance and honoured speakers. (link no 1)
Fact: RDO are permitted an advertisement on TATOC website (link no 2)
TATOC statement: “A clear example of the importance of working together was the timeshare seminar that took place in conjunction with the Resort Development Organisation (RDO), just before the conference properly began”(link no 3)
“All the changes made to the RDO were consumer driven which is why the RDO’s relationship with TATOC is so important,” Lucock explained. (link no 4)
The importance of working together was the message promoted by Mark Caldicott, TATOC Consumer Helpline manager, who told delegates “together, we will make a difference.” (link no 5)
Therefore TATOC and RDO work together, promote each other, change policy and “sail in the good ship timeshare” To say otherwise or to defer the truth is simply a wrong and unhelpful.
On TATOC website it states:
“But what was happening to TATOC during this time? Meetings were still held and the education and support went on but ultimately talks between OTE and TATOC brought about yet another acronym VOICE (Vacation Owners Independent Coalition in Europe). This organisation using both OTE and TATOC staff, was formed to predominantly deal with complaints from consumers about the industry. After all was this not dealing with the very crux of the problem within the industry, the areas of sales and marketing that not even legislation had completely eradicated?”(link 6)
“it is essential that TATOC programs such as resort accreditation, business affiliation”
Ok so he we have it TATOC and RDO (ex OTE) are Affiliated – that in our book is linked.
“The good ship allegation flounders”.
“linked” is the correct way to describe TATOC and RDO so Sandy Grey was right. And the message to consumers will be reinstated to reflect the opinions of the TCA.
TATOC’S Objection to the word “pseudo.”
The term pseudo means pretend, artificial etc. First out is the TATOC statement:-
“The Timeshare Association (Timeshare Owners and Committees), known as TATOC, was formed in 1989 and is the only elected consumer association representing the interests of timeshare owners in Europe.”
They were not formed in 1989 they were formed on the 10th of December 2001. To state otherwise is simply untruthful. The statement is intended to induce a belief in an artificial claim made by TATOC.
“TATOC celebrates its 25th anniversary”
This again is untruthful and is in reality a false claim. TATOC know the claim they made was (and remains) false and represented a falsehood to its members , its sponsors, governments, Citizens Advice Bureau, Consumers Agency’s and its own staff.
TATOC in reality made it up and should returns the gifts, the donations, party attendances that they may have received and favours which such bring to the credibility table.
TATOC say “it is the only elected consumer association representing the interests of timeshare owners in Europe”.
They have not provided any substance to this claim and have not cited any independent body who have researched the point. It appears a self motivated posturing. The Directors who control TATOC do so in their capacity as Directors and Harry Taylor controls “The Board” with his extra Chairman’s voting right (exercised in the event of a disagreement).
TATOC are not elected by any shareholders or other association members.
We can find no evidence TATOC is an association, registered or unregistered or any shareholder information. Therefore the below statement seems entirely a falsehood.
“only elected consumer association representing the interests of timeshare owners in Europe.”
That, we believe, is not the truth. http://www.tatoc.co.uk/tatoc-conference/conference-2014
TATOC is not a Consumer Association
A consumer association is an organisation set up through an agreement between a group of people, who come together for a reason other than to make a profit.
That is the fundamental reason and the fundamental purpose of any consumer association.
A Consumer Association stands with consumers on all matters of timeshare and offers good, truthful, honourable, trustworthy and reliable advice to consumers for the benefit of consumers and at all times.
TATOC is not elected
We have dealt with that issue.
TATOC is sponsored linked and associated with the industry, further it promotes industry and their interests in its literature.
TATOC says “it is: Led by CEO and executive chairman Harry Taylor and supported by a board of fellow timeshare owners.
Firstly (inBritish English), the term CEO is a synonym for Managing Director (MD) and “A Board” (in the context of a Company) is its entire Directors who control the Company.
The truth is that TATOC has two Directors, apart from Mr. Taylor, there is one more Director and he is identified as – Mr Geoffrey Neil Chapman. To suggest, imply, infer or represent otherwise is a ruse, which can only be orchestrated for a purpose. That purpose is not to promote the truth.
To say other directors (in the plural) “are fellow timeshare owners” is just simply wrong or misleading.http://www.tatoc.co.uk/tatoc-conference/conference-2014
In short and in particular, TATOC is spanking truth with a deception bat with this statement
The TATOC website is a cacophony of logos from Developers, Resorts, Traders and an abundance of other trading organisations. To deny those sponsors have an influence on the trading activities is absurd at best.
TATOC exists because of incoming funds and those funders will continue to fund TATOC if it is in their best interest. TATOC get cash and the benefactors get benefit from TATOC.
The Timeshare Association
To get TATOC from 1998 to 2001 we have to fill in the missing 13 years between 1989 and the incorporation of TATOC Ltd.
We are fully conversant with incorporated and unincorporated associations and the formalities required. If TATOC was an association it must have been unincorporated, as TATOC did not exist as a person, an entity or accountable body before 2001.
We cannot establish a vision or an illusion; therefore we can only to refer to TATOC’s own statements, as to its own history.
Gladly TATOC have dedicated a web page to the very succinct subject “the history of TATOC”.
That would be the best place to look one would think? Sadly I was met with a wall of silence on the web page as it contained a wishy-washy meandering of spin about (maybe) the history of timeshare but nothing on TATOC history.
For a fact today TATOC is a company. If an association did exist, I found no records and TATOC’s own solicitors say it is a company with a company number and have provided such.
If a company was not formed, was it a registered association? If so, I can’t find it. Was it just a group of buddies in the industry with a mission? No dates, no events, no names, no voices, no momentous statements, no news articles, no advertisements, no accounts just a date in the TATOC history explanation saying
“the Chief Executive Harry Taylor launched the new strategy and new name for the Association. TATOC remains but it is The Timeshare Association”.
I don’t believe they will sing sea shanties from HMS timeshare unless you amend matters.
The above all seems rather grim and a bit of a dig at both Resort Development Organisation (RDO) and TATOC. It’s not meant to be.
The TCA fully and unreservedly acknowledges that there is a vital and pivotal role for both of these organisations in the timeshare industry.
All consumers want and need good resorts, well developed facilities in advantageous places.
In the main the RDO has done that excellently, so not to give credit for past excellent deeds and construction would be disrespectful. To rid the industry of the falsehoods and constant misdemeanors, the timeshare industry needs wants and deserves a strong and effective RDO.
With regard to TATOC, what they were intentionally set up to do and what they have done should not escape praise, again the industry need effective learned soles, with passion to advance what can be a fantastic industry. I know the TCA and other more worthy and educated Timeshare Consumer Associations will lock horns with both these organisations, as all are on one side of a triangular fence line.
The RDO and their members are entitled to a good profit, need a good profit so the industry, its driving force and permanence, is effective.
TATOC can’t be replaced, they have a wealth of experience, can effect change, establish resort advice and resort structures which will provide others with what they all want.
Consumer Associations in the industry are in truth pressure groups and can be the thorn in the side of the RDO and TATOC (we accept this), but to challenge, expose and push the boundaries will generate a better, more resilient and successful industry.
This in turn will return to the consumer what the consumer wants and expects, ‘good reasonable and predictable holidays’ with ‘good facilities’. You at the RDO want a good return, a steady return and a return which will provide you with future engrossments.
TATOC wants good, reliable, effective income streams for its resorts. It needs efficient, managers, trustees, contractors, agents, sellers and most of all a growing consumer base to generate needed and wanted products in a market place.
If that is what both you dream, you can count on the consumer as that in short is what they want also.
How much are the members of the RDO and TATOC spending on litigation. This litigation is killing everyone, is depressing everyone and will be the downfall to what could be and what was a good idea and product. If you both sat down and calculated that engrossment you might drive the desire to change the pace from a romp in the park to a stampede. That is the challenge!
Last modified: August 25, 2015